14/OCT/09

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CindyL's Posts
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Interaction In Online Worlds

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Comments: 26
CindyL said...
  • interested
The unique aspect of online gaming is the possibility and sometimes inevitability of people interacting with other people. However a growing trend in popular and some would call 'theme park' online games has been that you can effectively and sometimes you are even encouraged to grind through level after level on your own before are deemed worthy of actual team oriented activities that your friends and team mates from your guild participate in.

In a way that's a slight improvement on the punishing worlds of old where even a lowly and deceivingly cute bunny could obliterate you if you fought it alone. Back then it was in your best interest to group up and venture out into the lands or spend countless hours trying to level on one type of monster, and countless hours is putting it mildly. But somewhere in that transition from severely harsh environments to swimmingly pleasant we've lost touch with our communities, in some player's minds we've given rise to the solo player and little by little pushing aside content that requires grouping.

Myself I have felt that too and it's funny that this sentiment would come from me because after playing FF11 I hated grouping for a while and was always unhappy when I felt a game pushed me into them. Lord of The Rings Online was frustrating for this as you couldn't advance the main story line if you ignored the grouping instances. But after a few years and trying out games I normally never would due to my increasingly dissatisfaction with any new MMO (I know I have not been alone here...^_^) I am missing the interaction with people that I used to get when I was forced to group. Some of those games I'd never would have bought are Age of Conan and Aion, and now I'm even thinking of trying out Darkfall. Those three games have player vs player game play and I am not someone who enjoys fighting others. But what I did find is that PvP whether you love the thrill of it or hate it because it breaks your immersion does make you interact with others. In Age of Conan it's in your face type of PvP where it can happen most of anywhere at any time and most of the interaction you get is kill or be killed, unless you rolled on the role playing server in which case you may get a warning to stay off the road or pay toll, or prepare to die!



In Aion it's a little different because PvP zones are more controlled, so you don't really have to fear for your life at all times, you also get a friendly warning whenever a rift from or to the other side opens and you should be on the look out. What is fun about the Aion community is people look out for each other, if someone spots the enemy in your area they can show everyone in the chat channel with a link to the location on the map where they were spotted. If you happen to be unfortunate and die often if you wait someone is bound to resurrect you. Maybe it helps elemental stones of resurrection are fairly cheap. But I am enjoying this level of interaction in the game right now, I even like it when I spot an Asmodian and nearly have a heart attack and run the other way before they see me.. XD I guess what I am getting at is while PvP can sometimes have it's negatives is does have the side effect of bringing people together.

Which makes me think there has to be other ways of making people talk to each other or at least interact on some level and perhaps break the ice of being impersonal. The one thing I really hate about grouping up for certain missions is that people get so used to them they start acting like robots; go here go there, boom boom, we're done, thanks all, disband. I miss emoting like a jackass and actually talking to my group partners, how are you supposed to make new friends if you treat this like a business transaction? Now I starting to derail so maybe I'll cut it short here and ask; what do you think devs should do to encourage player interaction?
Age of Conan

Age of Conan (PC)

Genre/Style: Role-playing/Persistent World Online RPG
Release Date: 20/MAY/08
Aion

Aion (PC)

Genre/Style: Role-playing/Persistent World Online RPG
Release Date: 21/SEP/09
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26
Comments
Now there's something that requires perfect balance.

Make a game too hard to be able to perform any activities solo, and players who prefer solo play will be driven away.

Make it too easy and those who prefer grouping constantly will have no reason to do so without massive grinding.

I think devs should take a page from a game like Guild Wars. Make the game hard enough to require groups, but give players the option of AI teammates, for when the "ZOMGYUOSUX" crowd gets annoying. :P

BUT (and here's our hero, Captain Caveat) the major issue is, should grouping be a required thing for games. Not all online games are MMOs, and even with MMOs, there are enough people who are more than happy to play on their own with little to no intervention or interaction with other players. I don't think forcing them into groups is a real solution, for good or ill.

Some people, like myself, use gaming as a wind down from heavy interaction in our workplace environments. (I have been technical support and a debt collector, both of which are high stress and high interaction jobs.) The LAST thing I need is to be stuck grouping with... less than savoury individuals in a game. Now, I have the benefit of being a member of a clan with a large number of people I trust, and am comfortable playing with. Not everyone will have that luxury.

On another note: Player to player interaction will occur regardless of whether grouping is necessary or not. Anyone who has played vanilla WoW as Horde and sat in the Barrens for more than 2 minutes can attest to that. :P

Socializing in gaming, however, should not be so much of an overriding concern that it affects gameplay. Fine, chat with your friends, but if I'm more interested in that shiny object in the corner, I shouldn't need to be pestered by social butterflies.

There's my random thoughts for the night.
I'm not a long time MMO veteran, but for me personally, I prefer having the option of going it alone. I play two different MMOs, one with a strong RP ethos where socializing IC can be a fun game in itself, the other is full of semiliterate trolls. While I enjoy socializing (as my character) part of the time I'm playing, when it comes to killing monsters and exploring the world, I'd rather go it alone. I like the idea that you may bump into other PCs along your path, maybe trade, or share a bit of info, but I don't want to have to base my gaming schedule around someone else's wishes. I do enough of that in RL. And as far as the troll filled MMO goes, If it were a single player game with no other PCs, I'd be happier playing. You can only hear "gimme gold" or "wut lvl?" so many times a day.
Diablo III's approach of per player item drops sounds like a good idea to me as it should be both solo- and grouping-friendly.

Crafting-based item generation sounds like a good idea to me. Y'know, like years and years ago where you would escort a high level smith to a zombie-infested cavern to mine valuable materials (Ultima Online).

Class synergies, of course (check out http://www.epicwar.com/maps/98967/ to get an idea of what I mean).

Player tagging. I.e. if you mouse over another player, you can see tags that player associated with herself. To allow other players to easily check up if that player's playstyle meets theirs.

And many more...
@dowekeller OK, you play WoW, but what's the one with the strong RP'ing?
City of Heroes was the first I know of to allow players to create and join global chat channels and talk across servers.

They actually set up some more servers just for the global chat system. It uses something similar to IRC, with a single name per player (separate from your character names) and you create permanent chat rooms which we call a "global channel." (More permanent than an ordinary chat room, but less versatine than a permanent channel in IRC.)

The introduction of the global chat system had a huge impact on communication between players. It also made it a lot easier to have a supergroup which exists on multiple channels, because you could call for help across servers without having to log out and go to the SG forum.

I just wish we could get gDNA to let us enter our global chat handles as AKA's.
@Torinir Nice guess, but the betrolled MMO I play is Runescape, I love the crafting and skilling system, I like that it doesn't take itself too seriously, but nothing's perfect. Planeshift, The Perpetual Alpha (I think that should be the subtitle anyway) is the MMO I play where the community seems to really value RPing as I've only once seen someone consistantly talking OOC.
@Tjuhl Player tagging seems like a great Idea, why hasn't it caught on?
@Tjukl "Crafting-based item generation sounds like a good idea to me. Y'know, like years and years ago where you would escort a high level smith to a zombie-infested cavern to mine valuable materials (Ultima Online)."

OMG! I am so excited about this, I never played UO so I didn't get to see what it was about, though everyone tells me it would be my perfect game, I think item degradation is cool though I know some people hate it, but in Ryzom it makes crafters matter and in FF14 it will make smiths matter. Love it!
@dowekeller Yes I'd like to see more tagging, in Eq2 you can also put in an RP tag if you want. Usually when I toggle it on I always get someone saying hello or start a conversation if I'm standing around somewhere ;p
Tagging has limitations. I, for example, have different desires at different times. Sometimes I'll want to PvP, sometimes I'll want to run a small group instance, sometimes raiding, etc. Tags are too "fire and forget" unless you want to babysit them constantly.
@dowekeller Hmmm... Probably why I never really got into Planescape...

Yeah, Runescape's almost as bad as WoW for kids with more attitude than intelligence. :p
I've played all kinds of MMOs over the years. And while I do enjoy interacting with other people, I am more of a solo player for most things.
I don't play MMORPGs to play with other people.
I play MMORPGs to have the OPTION of playing with other people.

I think when games give bonuses to people who party, (I've played a few which give bonus exp to parties, buffs, etc.) that's an incentive to group together. Incentives are good, it offers you something for reaching out to make community. The opposite, however, when they give you stick instead of the carrot and say "Party or you can't continue/level further/get cool stuff" etc. tends to just piss me off and make me quit the game.
My question was not so much grouping vs solo though but how we could encourage player interaction, how can we use actual people in the game more?

Wakfu the sequel to Dofus is planning on not having any NPC's in game, this means quests and shops are all player driven, while this is the extreme I wouldn't mind seeing more of this in bigger titles. I guess Star Wars: Galaxies now has player made content as well. Awesome ;)
Well, as I said, giving pluses to people who group is one way.

I enjoy player created content, but that brings in the problems of clearing it as appropriate and then finding a way to present it where it'll actually get played. City of Heroes unveiled their Architect which would enable player-created missions. And people made some seriously cool story arcs. But because the missions were basically all just in a big list and there were MASSIVE amounts of player made quests, finding the good ones was hard.
the great problem why people don't group together often in MMO's are the trolls... It's just like you know you have to go in instance XYZ to get that really cool sword to continue leveling faster and instances are fun too but... alone... as a meele class? No way. So you start searching in the chat. In non-RP-Games it'll sound like this: Warr lvl 25 lfg (name of the instance) only need sword. Or something like this. In RP-Games it'll sound like this: Lonely Wolf-Warrior of the 25th rank searchs friendly fellows to get rid of the treat in (name of the instance). So on the normal server/game the first question/answer coming up in the chat is: WHAT LEVEL IS THE INSTANCE FOR??????????? (yes with capslock and 15 question marks...) You are patient and answer: Well you can enter the instance with lvl 18 but it's better to be about lvl 22-27. So then the same guy comes again and tells you he want to come with you. You invite him to the group - lvl 19 ranged class... well ok rather have a lvl 19 in group than nothing. It continues like that with stupid questions about the instance, your level, what abbriviations like lfg, lfp, wtf, stfu, afk, re, wb ....... means what Class the best is in the game (whaaat o,O Never heard of ->balancebeforet speak with each other... and only group up because of the buffs they get... well anyway just some random thoughts of me have a nice day then : )
@CindyL wow, I actually was thinking a while back about what it would be like to essentially have no NPCs in a game, for all the merchants, government structures etc. to be players. To essentially have the whole framework for a world, ore in the ground, animals and some low-level monsters in the environment and etc. And let the player's create the communities, Creeps would make your bad guys, PvP would be global, but by necessity death wouldn't be too permanent. It would be interesting to see what social-structures would generate themselves.
I'm going to make a change to my last statement, maybe you'd want character death to be permanent (or at least costly) to encourage courtesy among players.
@dowkeller I guess this MMO would be fastly known as 'THE hardcore MMO' ^^ But the Thought alone is interesting :o I think there would pop up thousands of betrayers, liers and so on all aka. 'criminals' ^^
@dowekeller It sounds like you're describing EVE.
@LordXenophon, It may be, I thought that EVE was a MMORTS, I was thinking more along the lines of a traditional RPG, more specifically , I was thinking about a hypothetical Ringworld RPG I've been fantasizing about.
@mace990, there in would lie the drama of the game, players would take the place of the highwaymen, thugs and such and others would band together to protect themselves, or free trade routes, or tax trade going through their centers of power etc.
@dowekeller EVE is only an RTS if you've got a ton of your buddies who you're telling where to go.
@ComradeRavenhawk thanks, I didn't know.
I can't play a MASS MULTIPLAYER game that can let you solo from start to end. Go play something else XD. Aion requires you to group up to be efficient which I like.
Another quality post. ;)
This has been a bit of an eye opener I think... I've been depressed lately that it's become Increasingly difficult to find people to hang out and play with in Guild Wars. Everyone is so busy with their titles etc, that it seems like no one wants to just goof of & play. You want to do something & you can't find anyone or people just want to run it. It's like its all about the reward & not about playing.I even had a "friend" ask me to "help" him with a mission. Then turns out he just wanted me to run it. I think I could probably get paid for that.... But after reading this it seems a lot of people would rather play alone. I've reached a point that I don't need help with pretty much anything in the game, but.... I would still prefer to have company during my gaming than just go it alone.
@dowekeller I doubt that such a game would be much fun. Isn't that kinda what second life is? But also I'm not one of those that enjoys PvP that much. I think its the griefing & the bullying.
Putting a bit more perpective on tech side, making new types of skills will evolute the play style of game. Such as, party specialized skills(ex. need 2~3 different race to initiate skill) which can make illusion bridge to cross a gorge full of posion gass or monsters or warp together to a specific area, recall a special party spirit or beast, etc. Important thing is that mostly the game skills (excluding buff skills) are based mostly on attacking and less cooperative. I think turnabout of some game skills will make a lot of difference to game atmosphere
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